Subject: Is it getting tough for men to find a life-partner ?

From: [email-masked] (venkatesh ravirala)
Date: 15 Aug 90 04:09:01 GMT

As everyone realize, it is a tough and competetive world out there.
    Though we talk about the advantageous position (in the society) of men
    over women, I should add that men are also put under tremendous pressure
    to achieve the so called "independency" while the women (not all) seem
    to make a half hearted attempt in taking up serious careers.

       Few observations:
         (Note: I donot intend to generalize, so bear with me)
          1. Women demand that their husbands be more qualified and well
             placed then themselves. Though it is hardly stated directly,
             you will rarely find an M.D. or PhD. or LLB woman marrying
             an MBBS or B.Com man unless he happens to be damn rich or
	     much handsome.
          2. In most of the cases, groom's party is better placed financially
             than the bride's. Heard of parents uttering " Hammari laDhki ko
             Amir khandan me *HI* denge?".   
          3. Now a days educated girls want dowry less marraiges, but would
             consider before hand how much assets the boy would be inheriting.
          
     Now WHY AND WHY NOT:
 
          a) Why is it that you invariably find brothers fighting for
             proper division of assets while you rarely get to see
             two sisters doing the same? 
          b) When the present law allows women equal share in the property,
             why is it they donot demand and fight for it with their 
             parents or brothers ? (and stop cribbing about men taking the
             dowry or other bullshit).
                                
     Among all the propaganda about improving the status of women, many
     are ignoring that the changing conditions and societal values are
     putting tremendous pressure on less successful and unlucky men. It
     is no different from feeding one person by snatching bread from the
     other !!!. What is changing is not only the status of women but also
     their aspirations and demands.

       A few questions:
           1) How many men without proper income are getting offers from
              rich and well settled women ?
                   Well, viceversa cases are plenty.
           2) How many parents give their daughters without considering
              the INHERITED (and already earned) riches of the boy?
                    Again, I would encourage work for reliable statistics :-)
               Certainly less than the dowry demanders.Period.
               
      Frankly, (what ever may be the circumstances) women have perpetrated
   the higher handedness of men by always choosing men better placed than
    themselves. The so called compromises arise because ones demands
   are equally high. Remember, the value of any commodity that has demand
   ONLY increases. 

   Finally, a small advice: Before rejecting any match either at the 
  consideration stage (especially) or at the decision stage, try to
  figure out what your requirements and priorities are and then
  take the responsibility of achieving some of those demands by your
  own effort rather than seeking it from the other party. People with
  adapting nature and spirit will always succeed and be happy no matter
  at what position of the ladder they stand. 
       
     with regards
      Venkatesh
      ------------------------
        [email-masked]
      ------------------------

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From: [email-masked] (Shailendra Save)
Date: 17 Aug 90 01:24:19 GMT

>From article <[email-masked]>, by [email-masked] (venkatesh ravirala):
> 
   
   Everyone rises to his or her level of incompetence. Therefore it stands
to reason that anyone who ends up making a half-hearted attempt, 
also rises only half as much as he could have. Or she could have. Then the
pressure that the man feels is the one which he imposes on himself for the
achievement that he feels he himself should have in order to make himself
successful, not only in his own eyes, but in the eyes of others as well.
That women don't (which is not quite a fair generalisation), should not bother
you, since these women don't feel the need to assert their "independence"
and are happy to live under the shadow of their husbands.

>          (Note: I donot intend to generalize, so bear with me)

	Then don't.

>              an MBBS or B.Com man unless he happens to be damn rich or

   Demand? :-) That is one thing. Actually getting them is another. Who
will marry the woman who makes a decision on the basis of the number of 
high level degrees that one has at the end of their name, or on the basis
of the amount of money they have. However, it is quite right to find the
best possible spouse for yourself, is it not?  The criterion for making
this decision is not always based solely on the three things that you 
have mentioned above: degrees, money and looks. 

>              Amir khandan me *HI* denge?".   

   Why? Should the bride's parents say "We'll give our daughter to only a poor
family"?  Let me point out that this is not the only thing that they look for
in the family. They usually look at "Honhar ladka hai" and many other related
facts of the same type.

>              consider before hand how much assets the boy would be inheriting.
  
   Everyone want easy money nowadays. Wasn't there some discussion on the
   net about the philosophy of Ayn Rand? Only this tends to be a sort of
   mooching. 

>              two sisters doing the same? 

   Ever since the older times, the daughter was not considered as the 
   part of the family once she got married. Reason two: if she was not
   married, she would expected to be looked after by at least one of 
   the brothers, who would give what their sister wanted.  If you mean
   that there are only two sisters in the family, then the mother would
   most naturally take over the entire assets (I think you mean inheritance)
   and look after them both.

>              dowry or other bullshit).
  Tradition. Though more and more people (women) are exercising their right
  today. Also it depends who has worked for the property. Most indian women
  stay at home and the men work at their business and bring in the money,
  so the women do not find it right to fight for something that is not 
  earned by them . Again, maybe it is with the understanding that they
  will be taken care of either way.

>      their aspirations and demands.
  Where do you find the analogy of snatching bread from one and give it to
  the other?  As for the last line, and since you are one who is worried about
  how much dowry you are going to get, ask yourself this question: Aren't your
  aspirations to get the highest amount of dowry, the most educated woman,
  the most beautiful woman? Then by what right do you speak of pressure?
  And success? Are you worried that you now have to prove yourself to be
  a better person?  Remember one thing, my friend. Values at their most
  basic level never change. What does change is the way that they are looked
  at by different people.  

>                    Well, viceversa cases are plenty.

  Let me counter that with this: 
  How many men take a woman without proper income that does not have any
  other quality?  Why should he?  And to answer your question, why should
  she?
  The fact and the traditional belief that the man is the bread earner,
  still is instilled in our minds. Take it from there.

>               the INHERITED (and already earned) riches of the boy?

  Numerous. Though what you say exists, is sad and is true.

>    are equally high. Remember, the value of any commodity that has demand

  Ever played on the stock market, my friend?  What will happen to the woman
  who thinks that she needs a highly educated man with a lot of money, only
  how highly, and how much money is still not quite defined, and the value
  of men required only rises until the woman is 30+ looking for a still
  wealthier man, with one more degree than the previous one..... Ever seen
  a Wall street crash? 
  You are also talking like a "bania". And are un/intentionally taking the
  literal meaning of the words like being on "the market" for marriage. Since
  when have men become "commodities"? 

>   at what position of the ladder they stand. 
   Well put. Though this makes me think that the perception you have of
   a marriage is more like a business deal.  I can get this, and I can 
   give this. Deal.  Adapting nature and spirit is the basis on which
   most of the marriages in India survive, independence and rigid ways
   of life are what makes for the better part of the divorce reasons here.

>       Venkatesh

--Shailendra
....!uw-beaver!ole.uucp!ssave